This is not going to be another post on objectivism and how good or bad it is....I guess I just want to think aloud here as to how it may affect one's life in a very positive or negative sense. I started reading "The Fountain Head" which had the first inkling of Objectivism...which was followed up by Atlas Shrugged that established Objectivism as a theory in itself. When I was reading through the book I was very impressed with the protagonist...his ideas...his vision...and his determination to succeed in his own right instead of getting succumbed into the world of tradition-worship. It sounded very Idealistic for such a person to exist...I started discussing about Objectivism with my other friends who were very familiar with the concept...At some point I had a feeling that Objectivism is something for a person who is standalone...Who believes only in himself and does not have anything to do with anyone else in the world. It did me a world of good to ignore this book and return it back to the library. In other words I had a feeling Objectivism is a mind-only-operated person. There is not heart involved here....and when there is no heart involved...you stop feeling anything about anyone...in short you become emotionless. The concept talks about living for yourself and your own creativity indifferent to the opinions of others.
Now Let's talk about why I started liking it....I like being selfless to the extent of going out of my way to help others....Thats how I was brought up....and that is how my parents still are....And I liked being that way as it brought me happiness when people were thankful for what I did to them...Not that I expected them to return back my favors.....Inspite of this I found myself thrown in situations where I needed help and the people that I would count on to help would not even care....(Don't mistake me here...They would have helped me if they could...Poor them their situations did not permit them to help me without going out of their way)....This thought was always ringing in my mind...Why do I go out of my way to do things for people who would not even attempt to save me from a demanding situation if it involves putting their noses out in trouble? Cos it necessarily hurts me not because "I don't get what I expected?" but because of the root of my expectations itself. Could it be possible that I am dealing with a very Selfish world where people are nothing but selfish.... All they think about is only themselves
That is where OBJECTIVISM came to my rescue. It questioned me as to why should people not be selfish in doing the kind of things they do. They do it to achieve internal happiness...whether that happiness stems out of material or immaterial means it doesn't make any difference. Atleast in that sense one does not have the burden of expectations. One has much to learn from the virtue of selfishness. A Selfish person always places his own desires before everyone else...Not that he/she does not think about other at all....He does help others sometime for his benefits and engages the others in conversation to see if he has anything to gain from it...Sometimes I completely tend to agree with the point of view of Objectivists who literally seem to hate the altruists....Why should one get everything easy and the other always has to struggle hard towards getting it?? What if all the people in the world who struggle to get what they want it life or who give the world what it wants?? (Basically the prime-movers of the world). In over two decades of my life (which is not too much)..I've seen the society and the world impose things only on those who have worked harder towards achieving what the world wanted by actually working on what they wanted to achieve....So in a true sense they are the real altruists...Not the ones who gets and distributes this hard work and glory to everyone around as if it was their own effort... Mark my Words here....ANY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS WORKED HARD TOWARDS EARNING ANYTHING WILL NOT WANT TO GIVE IT AWAY TO ANYONE AS EASILY....IF AT ALL ONE SUCH PERSON IS AN ALTRUIST...THEN HE IS BEING ONE FOR HIS OWN SELFISH REASONS.
Now the argument is getting more towards Capitalism vs Communism...which is something that I've always had mixed opinions about but I guess I don't have the wisdom to think of world as a whole to discuss about this....Let me just discuss about an individual's life....Most of us feel that every one around us are selfish...just because they do not do what you want them to do at that specific time. This can even make a best friend look like an enemy...But lets see if we can get this right...DO we even understand what Selfishness is??? If we do we will be ok with why it should be called as one of the virtues that every one is supposed to have to retain some amount of respect for the self. There are two kinds of people: One set try to do everything for others so that they can get their own desires satisfied....For the other set of people it is only about them...They totally believe that their thoughts, emotions, actions have to be the basis towards anything that they do with others....In short they do not care about what others think about them much less what they think about others....They are called Self-Centered People....And much to my dismay most of them that I find around me including myself at times...are Self-Centered. This especially affects you when you are trying to build a new relationship...whether it is professionally to a Colleague...or a stranger you meet in the flight or a party or It might be the person that you've known all your life. After all this analysis..It has become extremely difficult for me to meet with new people....let alone make new friends...It can be very stressful especially when you being the selfish kind wants to know if you can be friends with a person and are trying to get to know them and they being the self-centered only keep talking about themselves...Then the more "Self-centered" you pops up and asks you to talk about yourself instead of listening to all the crap that the other person has to say and "Pop goes the weasel"...the whole conversation comes to an end in a very ugly smugly way.....End of the day I do realize why people accuse the world of being selfish...I think World has to be selfish to survive but it also has to be not self-centered...to survive well.
I guess that's all for now...I m writing up on some spiritual stuff...will be back soon.
Sunday, February 8, 2009
Objectivism and Selfmoreness
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priti
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11:44 AM
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7 comments:
You started off rather well- but towards the end, I guess it got to more of a rant :)
Coming to the post- esp the later part of it, why do you think self centeredness is anything different from selfishness? Selfishness stems from a desire to get what one need- selfcenteredness is just a manifestation of that desire- isnt it?
When someone is self centered, what is he trying to do? If you are talking about a specific instance of getting to know a person etal, then think why was he/she being so self centered in your opinion. There might be more selfish reasons behind the self centeredness than you might realise!
Hi Krish...You were perfectly rite...I started off with a clear thought....But then I was a little confused when I was trying to finish it....It was a more hasty finish to a vast and beautiful topic.
Actually I think both Selfishness and Self-centerdness are completely different....Selfishness is a better virtue in the sense that you atleast satisfy yourself and do something constructive to get yourself something....I've met a lot of self-centered people...In the end everything revolves around themselves...their emotions...It doesn't have anything to do with others...In the end it comes to the mere definitions of what you call Selfishness and what you call Self-centeredness....I would hate to talk to a person who would keep talking about himself/herself although it may or may not do any good to them...The self-centered person with selfish motives...may infact not have any selfish motives other than satisfying his EGO in raising himself above everyone else and living in that ignorant world as a self-crowned King/Queen. Again I was so random in replying to your comment...I m finding it really so hard to focus these days....I probably have the Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder....Churning out more and more random and impulsive posts everytime I blog...I hope this trend does not continue for long. Thanks for your perspective :)
This is a very well-written post and helps to clarify many of the sentiments I encountered after finishing The Fountainhead. I find reading Rand to be an exhilarating experience because she is a powerful story-teller and I am able to enjoy the symbolic narrative she presents without necessarily accepting the tenets of objectivism for myself.
You may find the following article very interesting--it was written by Nathaniel Branden, who at one point was chosen by Rand as her intellectual successor but later became a critic of objectivism:
http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/articles_essays/benefits_and_hazards.html
Thank you again and keep up the brilliant writing!
Jason
Priti...guess what?? I was just thinking on these lines and was discussing it with friends yesterday and this morning when I read your post it just seemed like such a strange coincidence. But that's not surprising since you and I do seem to have a lot in common. The blog post was definitely interesting, and the comments both yours and that of your readers were also very thought provoking.
I agree with you that there is a thin line of difference between selfishness and self-centeredness. The truly selfish might not seem self-centered at all and might seem very friendly and attentive, and yet they would never do anything that would not benefit them and their selfishness is their driving force. And on the other hand, there are those who may not be ruthlessly selfish, and yet they are so self-centered, so self-absorbed that all conversations revolve around only them, much to the exasperation of others. But who amongst these two categories of people are more harmful. I think those who are self-centered can make a friendship/relationship very boring, frustrating, and exasperating, but they are not as harmful as the truly selfish people can be who will do anything driven by their selfishness. If in this world, people could be categorized into such mutually exclusive silos, then there wouldn't have been any problem. But unfortunately that is not the case, and the lines get blurred all the time. Leaving the saints and the totally evil people, I think most average people are varying shades of gray characters. It is very difficult to see the extent of the gray shades early on, but as our eyes get accustomed to seeing the shades, it can differentiate. So also we also must learn through experience to determine who are the ruthlessly selfish people who can harm us, hurt us, and who are driven by extremely shallow selfish motives with not a care for those whom they trample. And we need to protect ourselves from such people. And as for the completely self-absorbed, self-centered people, if you think that they are probably nice people, then you might want to tell them that the fact that they constantly talk only about themselves proves frustrating for you. And most often than not, I have found in my experience that some of these self-centered people actually don't realize what they are doing, and it probably stems from some deep-rooted neglect in their past and a need for attention, appreciation, and acceptance.
But yes...just like gray, selfishness and self-centeredness also get very blurred. And we just need to figure out at which end of this spectrum an individual falls, just so that we can bring out the relevant protective gear to protect ourselves :).
I also liked the comment by Jason. Yes, Ayn Rand is a great story teller. The idealistic creativity of Howard Roarke is interesting and to a great extent inspirational. And the story and the movie based on it, both are masterpieces. Although, I do not agree with everything in the book completely, for me the major take away from both the book and the movie (which has a script written by Rand herself) is that "one needs to be true to one's ideals" and I think basically that is Rand's idea of "selfishness", which is very different from the usual meaning and connotation of the word. I think she does not say that one needs to do thinks that benefit one as an individual at the detriment of others. She does not encourage using other people or taking advantage of other people, which is the dictionary ascribed meaning of selfishness. So when I approach Rand's concept of selfishness with this clarity, I think it is a tenet which will help us to live up to our ideals and not sacrifice them for the sake of pleasing a society or following the herd. In this hyper competitive, super-political, mud-slinging, back-stabbing, academic and professional worlds that we live in, I think it is very important to be true to our ideals. I feel that such kind of an attitude will help us stay strong. It will help us not to compare ourselves with others. It will help us not to gauge success in terms of comparison with others, which will only lead to a lot of discontent and sometimes may push one towards compromising on one's ideals. So in this regard, I think Ayn Rand's argument for selfishness is similar to Lord Krishna's teachings to Arjuna in The Bhagvad Gita. And it reminds me of the father of Capitalism, Adam smith's concept of invisible hand. He says that the butcher, the baker, and the brewer all do their work for their own self-interest, but that indirectly leads to the interest and betterment of the society. That being one of the major tenets of the foundation of capitalism, is a very true concept, which we see in our daily lives. But the real capitalism which we see today at a Macro Economic level, especially in the U.S to a great extent has been at the detriment of the society. I am no expert, but I think that has probably led to some of the problems facing the socio-economic fabric of the world's super power. True, capitalism has been engine behind the train of economic success of the U.S. But it was not at a total neglect or disregard of socialistic measures. This is the country, where people have social security, affordable schooling, and some of the most socially conscious charitable, developmental, human rights organizations that truly strive to make a difference in this world. So I don't think that capitalism and socialism are such mutually exclusive concepts. India is a mixed economy, and although U.S is supposedly a capitalistic economy, it is certainly not devoid of socialism or protectionist measures. As for communism, I think the communism envisage by Karl Marx was way too idealistic and I don't think that found a realization in any of the communist countries. Most of the communist governments across the world have faced a downfall due to changes unleashed by the voices of the masses in the form of total revolutions or in the form of student-led protests. So we either saw a complete downfall of communism as in Eastern Europe or else a changed communism as we see in today's China. I think the root of the problem is that humans are inherently somewhat selfish, and only the degrees vary, and in a society the spectrum of shades between black and white could fluctuate a lot. And so an idealistic communism is hard to exist. And the forms of communism that do exist slowly turn into bureaucratic nepotism filled institutions which slowly give way to authoritarianism, which undermines basic civil liberties. So that is my take on the capitalism-socialism-communism trilogy :). There was an interesting cartoon, which I had seen long time back and which has been now circulating as a forwarded message across the Internet. It defines all these "isms" of capitalism, communism, etc..through the funny analogy of what the government does with cows you have. Well, I found it online. Here you go:
ECONOMICS : THE COW FACTOR
SOCIALISM : You have 2 cows, so you give one to your neighbour.
COMMUNISM :> You have 2 cows. The State takes both and gives you some milk.
FASCISM : You have 2 cows. The State takes both and sells you some milk.
NAZISM : You have 2 cows. The State takes both and shoots you.
TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM : You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income.
Ha ha :)
Anyway, what started as a comment to your blog post has become long enough to warrant a blog post for itself. :) That was quite a ramble. Hope some of it makes some sense and I didn't go off on different and completely unrelated tangents. :)
Thanks for writing and sharing this thought-provoking post. I enjoyed commenting on it and it was a very good way to spend my Sunday morning. :)
Anonymous! :)
P.S: Priti..can you guess who this anonymous person is?? ;)
Hi Priti,
I chanced upon your blog and enjoyed the discussion on Objectivism. It was refreshing to hear someone/and many in the comments admit that they did not fully agree with the absolute tenets of Objectivism. I agree with your views, on the lack of "feeling/heart" element.
It's true that we are all driven by self-interest and most of our actions have an underlying interest to satisfy the self/ego. While self-interest/selfishness is absolutely essential for survival, it's very interesting to ponder on its relation to morality. Especially in the cases of moral dilemmas of right vs right, many times, there lies an option of sacrificing/living upto the integrity of the moral rule at the cost of our self-interest. Maybe it is also inherently selfish since we try to assuage our guilt/conscience through the sacrifice.
Anyway, my concern with Objectivism as proposed by Ayn Rand is that in the real world life is filled with moral dilemmas and if one tries to be true to his self by neglecting how his consequences affect humanity in general, then the idealism is grossly misplaced.
I enjoyed your comments on this.
I just finished Anthem, Fountainhead, and got halfway through Atlas over the last couple of days when I decided to stop and save the rest of it for my return trip, or I'd have nothing good to read. :)
Rand's essay/book "An Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" is a heady, but good read. I think it does a much better job of discussing objectivism than the novels do, though the novels show it in a more interesting way. :)
I must say that I disagree with the "no heart" attitude. These are people who are PASSIONATELY filled with emotion and drive. They have a purpose...in a world filled with people who would rather aspire to nothing. In such a world - where they are asked to either become mediocre, or support the mediocrity via their hard labor, they rebel. They have no space, no heart, no feelings for those who are unwilling to put in as much passion and effort for THEMSELVES as the heroes of the story have done.
When the main characters in all these stories find each other, there bursts forward a passion and emotional entanglement much stronger and deeper than any of the "second-handers" has ever or will ever experience. Because they are content to live with no passion, they can never achieve the heights of emotional exultation that the main characters do.
Every person has an opportunity to do MORE with themselves - if they only choose to do so. Especially in THIS day and age, there are even LESS excuses for someone to not take charge of their own life and do something good and maybe even great with it. One never has to be anyone else's victim. Even if you cannot physically avoid subjugation, you get to choose whether your spirit is broken or not.
The main characters in these novels don't "have no heart". That is what the degraded world around them accuses them of. Instead, they simply refused to BE victims, and refused to give parlay to anyone who allowed themselves to feel victimized - and therefore deserving of some special consideration.
Anyway...sorry it took me so long to get around to making a comment on this post. I didn't have much time to do reading in the spring quarter, and didn't get around to finishing Fountainhead and get into Anthem for too long. :-)
Guys sorry for the delayed response...but from the discussion here the only thing I can think about is that I'm lucky to have such people with so much depth come to my blog and comment on my post.
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